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FSFlyingSchool Captain
 
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| Two minor problems: 1. The usual procedure for take-off is to ensure that the electric fuel pump is ON on take-off in case it fails. You can then switch it off once you're airborne. However Mr Smith is not happy with that and doesn't like me to take off unless I've switched it off. Am I missing something? 2. I still have glideslope problems. On approach, Mr. Smith insists that I have to get the glideslope, but he doesn't know that I'm overflying the runway outbound to make a procedure turn back. As a result he tells me that it was a poor landing and penalizes me. That ain't fair. If I remain in cruise mode he'll then tell me that I can't descend whilst cruising and criticizes me for that. So what's the best way of approaching a landing according to an NDB approach chart where the FAF is very near the runway and you have to fly outbound first, do a procedure turn and then come in to land via a standard circuit because the approach is 45 deg. to the runway? Stan
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stanshear (11/1/2009)
Two minor problems: 1. The usual procedure for take-off is to ensure that the electric fuel pump is ON on take-off in case it fails. You can then switch it off once you're airborne. However Mr Smith is not happy with that and doesn't like me to take off unless I've switched it off. Am I missing something? 2. I still have glideslope problems. On approach, Mr. Smith insists that I have to get the glideslope, but he doesn't know that I'm overflying the runway outbound to make a procedure turn back. As a result he tells me that it was a poor landing and penalizes me. That ain't fair. If I remain in cruise mode he'll then tell me that I can't descend whilst cruising and criticizes me for that. So what's the best way of approaching a landing according to an NDB approach chart where the FAF is very near the runway and you have to fly outbound first, do a procedure turn and then come in to land via a standard circuit because the approach is 45 deg. to the runway? Stan Hi Stan, Biggles here, S/L is going to have to answer this one re C172, but I do know that on the ACA Scout the checks call for the Fuel Booster Pump to be "ON" pre take off & only switched off once safe altitude is reached. Check list recommends 500Ft agl. Landing checks calls for FBP to be "ON" at downwind checks. Before Takeoff 1. Mixture — rich 2. Propellor — full-fine 3. Fuel boost pump — ON 2-03 Climb Cruise — Flaps UP, airspeed 80kt IAS Best rate — Flaps UP, airspeed 66kt IAS Best angle — Flaps 14°, airspeed 53kt IAS Throttle — 25in Hg manifold pressure Propellor — 2500rpm Mixture — full rich or leaned as required at high altitude Fuel boost pump — OFF at safe altitude (above 500ft)
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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| Yup, that's exactly what I thought. Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Training Captain
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Gentlemen, lets keep this on a fair level, shall we?
Stan. You might have seen something different, somewhere, but I must admit that I havent been able to find one checklist on the web (and I dont say there aren´t any, just that I havent found any) and I looked at quite a few, to support your theory of having fuelpump on for takeoff, in the C172.
But anyway, FSFlyingSchool, and the detailpack for the C172is a program builtfor FSX and FS2004. The standard fuelpump procedure in FlightSimulator, for the C172is:
| ENGINE START | | | | | Press CTRL+E to initiate engine autostart sequence, or: | | | [ ] Throttle
| OPEN 1/4 INCH
(press F3 or F2 as necessary) | [ ] Mixture
| RICH
(press CTRL+SHIFT+F3 until fully in) | | [ ] Propeller Area | CLEAR | | [ ] Master Switch | ON | | [ ] Auxiliary Fuel Pump Switch | ON | [ ] Ignition Switch
| START (release when engine starts)
(press M+PLUS key to R, L, Both, Start) |
| Then: | | | | | [ ] Oil Pressure | CHECK | | [ ] Auxiliary Fuel Pump | OFF | | [ ] Flashing Beacon and Nav Lights | ON as required | | [ ] Avionics Master Switch | ON |
[ ] Flaps
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RETRACT
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Or in short: FuelpumpON - engine start - fuelpump OFF. This is what the C172 detail pack is built on, as this checklist is the only checklist far most FSX/FS2004 users will ever see, and therefore expect the detailpack to agree with.
The c172 pack says:
Note that the instructors’ advice, warnings and checklist lists are a combination of real world reference
sources and of the checklist and reference files supplied by Flight Simulator for this aircraft. Not all of
these sources agree and as a result some of the values or methods used may differ from sources you
may have seen yourself.
So YESthere will be things in the detailpack that might not be exactly as you expect, butthis will always be the case where you simulate something. The planes in Flightsimulatorare not 100% accurate either, but again,for most people, these are the only onesthey will ever fly with, and being a expert user as you seem to be, hence all the details you post about, I hope you can live with a small set of inaccuracies, rather than the common user that will be much more confused bydetails that does not comply towhat he/she saw in the FS checklist. 
Regards
Ole Andreasen, Denmark
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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| This is an interesting one. All the literature and checklists that I have for my other planes, eg the Piper ARcher and Baron, state that the electrical fuel pump should be ON before takeoff in case the mechanical pump fails. I always assumed that there were two pumps, an electrical and mechanical pump as standard equipment on any plane. Looking up on Wikipedia this is what it says:Fuel Boost Pump Switch - Controls the operation of the auxiliary electric fuel pump to provide fuel to the engine before it starts or in case of failure of the engine powered fuel pump. Some large airplanes have a fuel system that allows the flight crew to jettison or dump the fuel. When operated, the boost pumps in the fuel tanks pump the fuel to the dump chutes or jettison nozzles and overboard to atmosphere. SO it would appear that some aircraft have AUXILIARY electrical fuel pumps in case the normal mechanical, engine-driven one fails, and this one SHOULD be on during takeoff and before landing because its purpose is to act as a standby for safety reasons. It seems like the C172 has only a single, mechanical pump, but I'm still confused as to why it should be switched off before takeoff. Surely any fuel pump should be on all the time, otherwise how does the fuel get pumped into the engine? Looks like we need some expert advice on this one, 'cos I'm totally confused now. Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Training Captain
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| ''My fellow aviators, Biggles here, I have delved into the matter of "Fuel Booster Pumps" (FBP) a little further. As far as Cessna a/c are concerned (C150, C172, C206) it seems they only require the FBP to be "On" for the engine start only  Real a/c check lists can be seen/downloaded here; http://www.freechecklists.net/index.asp Is there a difference between a Fuel Booster Pump & a Fuel Aux. Pump, or is it just terminology. If anyone can offer an engineering explanation for this I am all ears. There must be a fundamental difference in the fuel systems for one a/c to require the FBP to be "On" for t/o & again for landing. Answers on a post card........... 
Of course if one accidently messes up on FBP there is a danger of things going very quiet, very quickly. The Check List states that when this happens one must retain ones sense of humour if not one dignity followed by strapping in tightly.  Biggles
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| I got a response on the Flightsim forum, where I also posted the question, to say that the Cessna definitely has two pumps, but the electrical pump is only used as a primer during enging start, and due to the high wing profile the main pump is located in the wings and has a partial gravity feed. So there's no need to have it on when you takeoff. Oh well, I guess the design guys knew what they were doing. Just interesting though that some checklists require you to have it on during takeoff in case the mechanical one fails, which doesn't seem to be a concern with the Cessna. Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Training Captain
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| Hi Stan Thanks for that FBP info. Horses for courses I suppose. At least we sort of know the technical reason now. That just leaves the question you posed re glideslope/Smithy/NDB approach Biggles
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Excellent!  Isn't it great how your hobby leads you off into research, etc, etc? All part of the wonder of Flight Simulation.  One note - as mentioned, we decided to go with the checklists in FS as they are those that the FSFS user will be familiar with and we do not want to run the risk of confusing the user.
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Bruce E (11/4/2009)
Hi Stan Thanks for that FBP info. Horses for courses I suppose. At least we sort of know the technical reason now. That just leaves the question you posed re glideslope/Smithy/NDB approach Biggles Hi Fenric Your second point, hilighted above, is being looked at by S/L. A question though when in cruise mode & on your approach to the overhead - at what height ere you flying? I have raised the following with S/L elswhere I paste it below for info & will keep you posted re answer. Re Stans 2nd point. Agree re turning off auto landing detection but to qoute Stan . If I remain in cruise mode he'll then tell me that I can't descend whilst cruising and criticizes me for that. So what's the best way of approaching a landing according to an NDB approach chart where the FAF is very near the runway and you have to fly outbound first, do a procedure turn and then come in to land via a standard circuit because the approach is 45 deg. to the runway? If one remains in cruise mode & descends below 1000 (with auto landing off) you will get hammered for low flying!? Question is at what height do you need to descend below to trigger point deduction/debrief comment for low flying? If memory serves me right you are, in unrestricted airspace & flying FVR, not allowed to descend <500ft unless landing. Therefore I would think that this should be the point at which fsfs hits you for low flying.ie <500ft in cruise mode. This may already be the case, I don't know. If Stan has got auto landing turned off & he remains in cruise mode when inbound for the overhead on his NDB approach then, provided he doesn't descend <500ft he should not hear Smithy's criticism re If I remain in cruise mode he'll then tell me that I can't descend whilst cruising and criticizes me for that. Biggles
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