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FSFlyingSchool PPL
 
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This was my result!:
Landing Score:0.00
Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown.
Good landing speed - not too fast.
Wings were level.
Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 1716 feet
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
With flaps - good job.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
No glideslope information was available on visual approach.
No runway alignment information was available on visual approach.
No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope.
Touch down not aligned with the runway - let's point down the runway.
Ballooning during landing - needs practice.
Definite room for improvement...
My overall flight score was 84.09
What am I doing wrong with the glidescope?
One strange thing I noticed was that Jersey tower told me to come straight in at 1600ft and then I was under the glidescope for a long time with the instructor going on and on about intercepting the glidescope. Should I have ignored the 1600ft instruction and climbed to intercept the glidescope?
I was flying the Cessna 172 on a short flight from Guernsey to Jersey.
Thanks in advance for any guidance!
Mark
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| Mark: I think we can sort this out - it's just a case of getting to know what MrSmith and his pals are actually looking at and what they are not. They are a pretty intense lot, but they have limits.  Landing Score:0.00 No problem - this usually means that we're new to the way FSFS works. Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown.
Good landing speed - not too fast.
Wings were level.
Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 1716 feet This is important - see below...
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
With flaps - good job.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good steering after landing. Good stuff! But more details below... Landing included the following problems:
No glideslope information was available on visual approach.
Almost certainly because no flight plan was loaded into FSFS. (Required by FSFS if you are NOT using an ILS approach).
No runway alignment information was available on visual approach.
Almost certainly because no flight plan was loaded into FSFS. (Required by FSFS if you are NOT using an ILS approach).
No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope.
Almost certainly because no flight plan was loaded into FSFS. (Required by FSFS if you are NOT using an ILS approach).
Touch down not aligned with the runway - let's point down the runway.
Almost certainly because NAV1 OBS was not set to exact runway heading (required by FSFS).
Ballooning during landing - needs practice.
This one - due to ballooning...! 
Definite room for improvement...
Oh - he loves to say that - bless him... My overall flight score was 84.09 Good! What am I doing wrong with the glidescope?
I am a bit puzzled because your topic is "I need help with ILS landings" but this was a landing without ILS and so I shall continue as if it was intended to be a visual (not ILS) landing. The glideslope can be hard to 'imagine' of course if the runway has no GS equipment at all - such as a grass strip out in the bush. I haven't checked but I dare say your runway may have had PAPI or VASI lights and you can usually follow then with good effect - which is what we do in the real world of course. Sometimes - this does not work so well in FS, especially with add-on scenery. One strange thing I noticed was that Jersey tower told me to come straight in at 1600ft and then I was under the glidescope for a long time with the instructor going on and on about intercepting the glidescope. Should I have ignored the 1600ft instruction and climbed to intercept the glidescope? The instructor knows you are below the GS and although intercepting it from below is of course common practice, he/she can be worried that before you intercept it you will fly into some troublesome object such as a mountain or tree. This is a very complex environment and ATC can have different ideas from your instructor and at times you basically need to go with ATC to keep them happy or go with the instructor if you want him/her to be happy. I was flying the Cessna 172 on a short flight from Guernsey to Jersey. An interesting and uncommon route. I like it! Finally - when landing without ILS, you need to load a flight plan into FSFS and you need to land very close to the physical start of the runway strip. This is a compromise - in the real world you could land further down the runway and of course we are looking into adding this to the program data and logic, but for now you need to nail your landing just after the start of the runway strip. When landing WITH ILS... everything is easier to set up in FSFS. Load a flight plan if you can - the experience is much richer - but you do not have to. Follow the GS and LOC instruments down to the runway, flare and land. See manual for a lot more detail. Thanks in advance for any guidance! Hope this helps.
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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Wow! Thanks Squadron Leader! You certainly seem to be a lot more amiable and helpful than Mr Smith!!
See I could have sworn I loaded the flight plan into FSFS and selected the right runway and everything, so that's why I was confused about the whole thing.
I shall take your tips and try it again...it's only a short flight.
One quick question, which no doubt is in the manual, but what order should I load things?
Should I do the flight plan in FSX and then "fly now" and then alt-tab out to load the flight plan & connect FSFS or can I load the flight plan & connect FSFS before I click "fly now" in FSX?
Thanks so much!
Mark
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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oops!...sorry for the double post....I wanted to put the quote in and thought it might automerge with my other reply!
SquadronLeader (6/23/2010)
Touch down not aligned with the runway - let's point down the runway.
Almost certainly because NAV1 OBS was not set to exact runway heading (required by FSFS).
Quick question....doesn't Mr Smith take care of dealing with the instrument details?
Thanks,
Mark
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Mark_Amy (6/23/2010)
Wow! Thanks Squadron Leader! You certainly seem to be a lot more amiable and helpful than Mr Smith!! I know what you mean. I do know him very well... He really is trying to help - you just have to be talking his language which means following the requirements described in the manual, such as advancing the flight mode and loading a flight plan, etc.
See I could have sworn I loaded the flight plan into FSFS and selected the right runway and everything, so that's why I was confused about the whole thing. Hmmm - I wonder if there is something else that was unusual about that flight. Can you please paste the contents of the HTML log book (the browser based log book) section for that flight into a reply to this post? Just open up the log book in FSFS and paste the text for that flight into here.
I shall take your tips and try it again...it's only a short flight. Excellent.
One quick question, which no doubt is in the manual, but what order should I load things?
Should I do the flight plan in FSX and then "fly now" and then alt-tab out to load the flight plan & connect FSFS or can I load the flight plan & connect FSFS before I click "fly now" in FSX? Oh - it's in the manual all right. Load everything you need from FSX including the flight plan and get yourself into the cockpit.
Only then... return to the Windows desktop or Start Menu and launch the FSFlyingSchool program.
It should not even be loaded before this point. 
Then... "read" the FSX flight plan into FSFS (using the new button in version 3.4) and finally... press CONNECT in FSFS and go flying.
Thanks so much!
Mark
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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Hi SL!
Here's the full info from the log book:
LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 14:15
FSFlyingSchool 2010 (June 18th 2010)
Using: FSX
Visibility: 62.14 Miles Wind: 0 Knots
Aircraft: Cessna ID: 225 Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: EGJB TO EGJJ NAV1: IJJ
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 18 Mins 17 Secs
Landing Score:0.00
Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown.
Good landing speed - not too fast.
Wings were level.
Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 1716 feet
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
With flaps - good job.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
No glideslope information was available on visual approach.
No runway alignment information was available on visual approach.
No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope.
Touch down not aligned with the runway - let's point down the runway.
Ballooning during landing - needs practice.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:84.09
Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
Poor steering during takeoff - stay in the centre of the runway.
Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
Flaps down while taxiing - get them up.
Poor attention to taxi speed - dangerous to yourself and others.
Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time.
Definite room for improvement...
I was loading & connecting FSFS before being in the cockpit, so that's probably got something to do with it. I'm gonna retry the flight again very shortly.
Yeah, yeah, I know...I should have read the manual properly!
One question....Mr Smith keys in the ILS numbers and then I put in the heading into OBS....am I supposed to do anything else? Do I have to switch Nav1 on or Approach before I land because as I recall, I didn't hear the usual beeping noise like when you use auto pilot.
Mark
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Mark_Amy (6/23/2010)
Hi SL! Here's the full info from the log book: LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Wednesday, June 23, 2010 at 14:15 FSFlyingSchool 2010 (June 18th 2010) Using: FSX Visibility: 62.14 Miles Wind: 0 Knots Aircraft: Cessna ID: 225 Airline: Flight: Flight plan: EGJB TO EGJJ NAV1: IJJ
Failure(s): None at landing Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 18 Mins 17 Secs Landing Score:0.00 Landing was successful in the following areas: Gentle touchdown. Good landing speed - not too fast. Wings were level. Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 1716 feet Good pitch control after touchdown. Good pitch at landing. With flaps - good job. Throttle(s) idle. Good steering after landing. Landing included the following problems: No glideslope information was available on visual approach. No runway alignment information was available on visual approach. No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope. Touch down not aligned with the runway - let's point down the runway. Ballooning during landing - needs practice. Definite room for improvement... Flight Score:84.09 Flight commended in the following areas: Smooth turns. Nice banking. Correct matching of flaps to speeds. Comfortable G forces. Smooth pitch control. Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit. Gentle taxi turns. Smooth braking during taxi. Smooth climb during takeoff. Wings level near ground. Well coordinated turns. No stalls. No flying dangerously close to stall speed. Smooth comfortable descent rate. Pitch not too high. Pitch not too low. Approach speed not too fast. Low altitude speeds not too fast. Good clearance of obstacles. Flight included the following problems: Poor steering during takeoff - stay in the centre of the runway. Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off. Flaps down while taxiing - get them up. Poor attention to taxi speed - dangerous to yourself and others. Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time. Definite room for improvement... Confirmed - a flight plan was loaded. I have done some digging and I think the problem is caused by a unique config you had during the landing. I have some data which says that this sort of thing can occur if you have the aircraft's NAV/GPS switch set to GPS when landing with NAV1 tuned to an ILS. At this point FSFS gets confused and starts treating the landing as a "visual" even though NAV1 is tuned to an ILS. Basically - don't do it - because right now FSFS will not give you the right treatment.
When landing ILS - set NAV/GPS to NAV.
I was loading & connecting FSFS before being in the cockpit, so that's probably got something to do with it. I'm gonna retry the flight again very shortly.
It is always best to use the right sequence, but frankly this usually only affects whether the FSFS keys work correctly - little else.
Yeah, yeah, I know...I should have read the manual properly! Always a good policy... 
One question....Mr Smith keys in the ILS numbers and then I put in the heading into OBS....am I supposed to do anything else? Do I have to switch Nav1 on or Approach before I land because as I recall, I didn't hear the usual beeping noise like when you use auto pilot. Sorry - not entirely clear here - but no, you certainly do not need to have approach mode on - that would be letting the AP do the work for you (often with terrifying results in FS!) You need NAV1 tuned to the runway ILS, GPS/NAV set to NAV, NAV1 OBS set to runway heading, ILS signal being received. Erm - I hope that covers it...
Mark
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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Thanks for your reply and help! I tried again, but there's still something going wrong. Forget what I was saying before about using APR...I was getting confused with when I use AP!
This time I'm sure I did everything correct and I flew well. In fact Mr Smith said that if I kept it up he would score me with a perfect flight! That didn't happen!
ILS was all set, NAV/GPS was set to NAV, my heading was set correctly in NAV/OBS, the ILS beep was coming through loud and clear from NAV1 and I kept in line with the runway and followed the glidescope perfectly...well almost.
When I landed I thought...yeah...this time I did it....but then I got your landing score is 0, approach is 0! So frustrating!
Can you think of anything else I might be doing wrong? I think next time I'll try another route!
Here's the full log:
LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Saturday, June 26, 2010 at 00:22
FSFlyingSchool 2010 (June 18th 2010)
Using: FSX
Visibility: 62.14 Miles Wind: 0 Knots
Aircraft: Cessna ID: 225 Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: EGJB TO EGJJ NAV1: IJJ
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 17 Mins 51 Secs
Landing Score:0.00
Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown.
Good landing speed - not too fast.
Wings were level.
Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 1941 feet
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
With flaps - good job.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
No glideslope information was available on visual approach. (why does this say visual when it was an ILS approach and the info must have been available because he kept saying I was above or below the glidescope?)
No runway alignment information was available on visual approach. (as above)
No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:93.07
Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Good take off steering.
Rotation was not late.
Appropriate position of flaps during taxi.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Flaps down on time.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
Exceeding flap speeds - your flaps may be damaged: have them checked.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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Success!!!
I changed my route...I took a short flight from London Heathrow to Gatwick and this time it worked OK. I did everything the same as last time, so I don't know what's wrong with the other flight....must be a problem with the Jersey to Guernsey route in FSX maybe!
Turned out to be my best landing to date!:
LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Saturday, June 26, 2010 at 01:45
FSFlyingSchool 2010 (June 18th 2010)
Using: FSX
Visibility: 62.14 Miles Wind: 0 Knots
Aircraft: Cessna ID: 225 Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: EGLL TO EGKK NAV1: IGG
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 24 Mins 56 Secs
Landing Score:80.59
Landing was successful in the following areas:
Good glideslope on ILS approach.
Good alignment with runway on ILS approach.
Gentle touchdown.
Good landing speed - not too fast.
Wings were level.
Glideslope held until flare.
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
With flaps - good job.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
Good steering after landing.
A splendid landing!
Flight Score:96.49
Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Good take off steering.
Rotation was not late.
Appropriate position of flaps during taxi.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool Developer
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| Excellent! Will keep thinking about the landings that Smitty scored as zero. There must be a factor that I cannot "see" - sort of thing where if I was watching I am sure I would notice what it was at once. When flying those previous flights, the ILS GS and LOC needles where both moving - yes?
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