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Posted Saturday, August 25, 2018 10:55:35 AM
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Have read another thread from a member, but didnt get to the answer, I also have the same question, which is "why when doing a reasonable circuit I am getting ZERO for circuit score?.

John K.
Post #13469
Posted Monday, August 27, 2018 4:22:05 AM


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Hi John:

Glad to help - please copy and paste the report of the flight from the Full Log Book.

Just press "View Full Pilot Log Book" at the Log Book screen in FSFlyingSchool and copy and paste the specific entry you are referring to.

If there are any other factors you think would be useful, please add them to your reply.


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Post #13476
Posted Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:27:53 PM
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hi

As you requested, my latest circuit...seems a good enough attempt but no score for Circuit ?.
Been reading and various suggestions have been available like:
use flight plan egkk to egkk (didnt work)
use no ils (didnt work)
check take off spot for landing spot (didnt work)
Am at a loss.

LightSpeed piloting Cessna 172 ended 26 August 2018 at 18:24
FSFlyingSchool 2018 for X-Plane 11 and 10 (June 9 2018)
Using: X-Plane
Visibility: 25.00 Miles Wind: 6 Knots

Flight plan: TO EGKK :London Gatwick NAV1: IGG
Flight Duration:00 Hours 07 Mins 05 Secs

Landing Score:91.09

Landing was successful in the following areas:
Good alignment with runway on ILS approach. [70%]
Gentle touchdown. [59 FPM]
Good landing speed - not too fast. [56 KIAS]
Landed on runway surface.
Glideslope held until flare.
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
Good steering after landing.
Nicely handled crosswind.

Landing included the following problems:
Poor glideslope on ILS approach - you can do better. [30%]
Definite room for improvement...


Circuit Score:0.00

Circuit included the following:
Good Upwind heading.
Good Upwind altitude.
Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
Good Crosswind heading.
Good Crosswind altitude.
Late turn onto Downwind leg - turn Downwind on reaching 1000 feet AAL.
Good Downwind heading.
Poor Downwind altitude - maintain 1000 feet AAL.
Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
Good Base heading.
Good Base altitude.
Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
Banking not too steep.
Nice handling of that crosswind - tricky during a circuit.
Final circuit leg too long [742] secs.
Landing distance from Circuit reference point:179 feet.
Definite room for improvement...


Flight Score:88.42

Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Good take off steering.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.

Flight included the following problems:
Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
Loss of altitude during takeoff - climb smoothly.
Rapid descent - dangerous and uncomfortable.
Definite room for improvement...
Post #13487
Posted Wednesday, August 29, 2018 1:47:39 AM


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Hi John:

Thanks for the log!

The flight and landing have some good scores!

The circuit has a few items of note which the instructor would have deducted from the score, but the one which reduced the score to zero was:

"Final circuit leg too long [742] secs."

As this is over 12 minutes, the instructor does not like it.

Now I can imagine, as you have not mentioned this 'final leg' as being exceptional, and as the log book itself reports:

"Flight Duration:00 Hours 07 Mins 05 Secs"

...that we have a problem here.


Is there anything going on which can affect the measure of time during your flights?

Pressing PAUSE in FSFlyingSchool is just fine - the instructor knows what PAUSE means - but...

...perhaps there is something unique about your installation of X-Plane on your PC?

Has X-Plane had its simulation rate changed during the flight? (Some folks speed things up over long flights).

Is something synchronizing the simulated world's time of day with the PC's real time clock?

Is some other process running - perhaps a plugin? (Please let me know if any are).



Rest assured that 1000s of folks are using FSFlyingSchool and this issue is not common, so I am confident we can resolve it.



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Post #13488
Posted Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:21:13 AM
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Hi Squadron Leader,

Thanks for that.

I have not speeded up Sim or done any of the other things you said so, not sure.

I did notice my time on circuit was quite long, never felt that long though.

I have quite a simple set-up as I dont like to cause x-plane 11 to slow down in frame rates !. The only plug-ins I have are :
- xpuipc/xpwideFS
- xplane plugin/1.2.6.0
- GroundTraffic v1.51 betiX - cybd_B0v.

Im also not sure that I landed so far from the circuit reference, of 179 feet, but could be wrong.

I can maybe understand that my downwind leg was maybe longer than it should be, but this could be because when previously I have turned onto Base before turning onto final I`m always told I`m too low when im coming down to 740 feet(500 + 240 airfield Elevation), yet mr smith does say "I want you to turn onto final at 500 feet",and yet the Glide Slope green square Marker is always above the center point when I turn onto final, so i`ve been extending my downwind and then coming onto base leg then final higher than 500. I thought that the glideslope Indicator was only for reference?.

My understanding was that I should take off and at 500 feet turn cross wind, then fly up to 1000 feet, then turn onto downwind and soon as im 45deg`s to runway turn onto base, come down to 500 feet turn onto final and land. am I in the Ball park ?.

1 other thing, last few circuits have been giving me low or zero marks for instance :
Landing 26%/circuit 0.00/glide slope 0%/Alignment 0.00/final score 94.55.
This seems a bit weird considering the scores, and now because I`m frustrated and trying all sorts, my last flight I was told because of low scores my scores will go back to zero, does that mean I now have to go back to Landing`s only and re prove myself ?.

Flight plan: EGKK TO EGKK : NAV1: IGG
Flight Duration:00 Hours 09 Mins 18 Secs

Landing Score:26.00

Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown. [190 FPM]
Good landing speed - not too fast. [50 KIAS]
Wings were level.
Glideslope held until flare.
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
Good steering after landing.

Landing included the following problems:
Poor glideslope on ILS approach - you can do better. [0%]
Poor alignment with runway on ILS approach - line up and stay there. [0%]
Landed without a proper approach OR off runway surface.
Definite room for improvement...


Circuit Score:0.00

Circuit included the following:
Good Upwind heading.
Good Upwind altitude.
Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
Good Crosswind heading.
Good Crosswind altitude.
Late turn onto Downwind leg - turn Downwind on reaching 1000 feet AAL.
Good Downwind heading.
Poor Downwind altitude - maintain 1000 feet AAL.
Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
Good Base heading.
Good Base altitude.
Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
Banking not too steep.
Landing too far from Circuit reference point.
Landing distance from Circuit reference point:1245 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score reset to zero due to poor Landing Score (under 50 points).


Flight Score:94.55

Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Good take off steering.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.

Flight included the following problems:
Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
Definite room for improvement...

Many thanks for listening,
John.





Post #13494
Posted Wednesday, August 29, 2018 11:31:08 AM
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Hi Suadron Leader.

Just tried another flight with no frills, just a take off 500 feet, turn onto crosswind, up to 1000, then turn onto downwind, base, down to 500, then turn onto final and landed very close to where I took off, this is my score :

Flight plan: NAV1: IGG
Flight Duration:00 Hours 08 Mins 28 Secs

Landing Score:26.14

Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown. [49 FPM]
Good landing speed - not too fast. [53 KIAS]
Glideslope held until flare.
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good steering after landing.

Landing included the following problems:
Poor glideslope on ILS approach - you can do better. [30%]
Poor alignment with runway on ILS approach - line up and stay there. [30%]
Wings not level - danger of clipping the ground or damaging your gear.
Landed without a proper approach OR off runway surface.
Ballooning during landing - needs practice.
Definite room for improvement...


Circuit Score:0.00

Circuit included the following:
Good Upwind heading.
Good Upwind altitude.
Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
Good Crosswind heading.
Good Crosswind altitude.
Good turn onto Downwind leg.
Good Downwind heading.
Poor Downwind altitude - maintain 1000 feet AAL.
Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
Good Base heading.
Good Base altitude.
Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
Banking not too steep.
Landing too far from Circuit reference point.
Landing distance from Circuit reference point:796 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score reset to zero due to poor Landing Score (under 50 points).

Flight Score:91.50

Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.

Flight included the following problems:
Poor steering during takeoff - stay in the centre of the runway.
Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
Definite room for improvement...

Very confused, as I did land no further than 20-30 feet from circuit ref point ??, and this last line :
Circuit Score reset to zero due to poor Landing Score (under 50 points), is confusing. as have had good 80-90% landing scores and still getting 0.00 circuit score.

Have just watched replay of this second flight and I landed on the button right on the black tyre marks where I took off. However when I load a/c its sitting right back at start of runway, so what I do is taxi down to skid marks , stop brakes on, then I connect fsfs do all checks , then press ctrl alt z, and then ctrl alt space, to pinpoint take off point before taking off, could this be my downfall and why I`m getting such low landing scores.

Sorry for taking up so much of your time, hope you can solve my problem, guess I`m going wrong somewhere.

John.
Post #13496
Posted Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:53:13 AM


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Hi John:

There's a lot in these last 2 posts - just letting you know we are looking at them...



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Post #13502
Posted Thursday, August 30, 2018 11:50:34 AM
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Hi Jeff (feel I can call you that now) .

Have just been reading the fsfs manual and it says :

Landing score of at least 70
Flight score of at least 80 achieved to before Circuits can be flown.


limits of each leg can be up to 6 min`s so that`s a flight time of up to 30 mins.
circuit ref point can be up to 300 feet.

I have achieved all of these and more.

Have just watched and timed my legs from replay file for ;

LightSpeed piloting Cessna 172 ended 26 August 2018 at 18:24
in x-plane 11 : with these scores :

91 % Landing score..88.42 Final score.
Crosswind - 5 knots
Headwind - 4 knots
Crosswind duration - 24 sec`s
Downwind duration - 2 min`s 18 sec`s
Base duration - 20 sec`s
Final duration - 2 min`s 40 sec`s.
TOTAL FLIGHT TIME - 11.01. *All within limits stated in Manual*

Hope this extra info will help solve my quanundrum.

Many Thanks ..John K.
Post #13503
Posted Saturday, September 01, 2018 5:36:33 AM


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Johnboy (8/29/2018)
Hi Squadron Leader,

Thanks for that.

I have not speeded up Sim or done any of the other things you said so, not sure.

I did notice my time on circuit was quite long, never felt that long though.

I have quite a simple set-up as I dont like to cause x-plane 11 to slow down in frame rates !. The only plug-ins I have are :
- xpuipc/xpwideFS
- xplane plugin/1.2.6.0
- GroundTraffic v1.51 betiX - cybd_B0v.

Im also not sure that I landed so far from the circuit reference, of 179 feet, but could be wrong.

I can maybe understand that my downwind leg was maybe longer than it should be, but this could be because when previously I have turned onto Base before turning onto final I`m always told I`m too low when im coming down to 740 feet(500 + 240 airfield Elevation), yet mr smith does say "I want you to turn onto final at 500 feet",and yet the Glide Slope green square Marker is always above the center point when I turn onto final, so i`ve been extending my downwind and then coming onto base leg then final higher than 500. I thought that the glideslope Indicator was only for reference?.

My understanding was that I should take off and at 500 feet turn cross wind, then fly up to 1000 feet, then turn onto downwind and soon as im 45deg`s to runway turn onto base, come down to 500 feet turn onto final and land. am I in the Ball park ?.

Yes this is correct - always remembering that the altitudes are above the airfield and not above sea level.


1 other thing, last few circuits have been giving me low or zero marks for instance :
Landing 26%/circuit 0.00/glide slope 0%/Alignment 0.00/final score 94.55.
This seems a bit weird considering the scores, and now because I`m frustrated and trying all sorts, my last flight I was told because of low scores my scores will go back to zero, does that mean I now have to go back to Landing`s only and re prove myself ?.

Please note that the scores are not percentages.

I think by final score you mean 'Flight Score'?


>> does that mean I now have to go back to Landing`s only and re prove myself ?.

No it does not.


Flight plan: EGKK TO EGKK : NAV1: IGG
Flight Duration:00 Hours 09 Mins 18 Secs

Landing Score:26.00

Landing was successful in the following areas:
Gentle touchdown. [190 FPM]
Good landing speed - not too fast. [50 KIAS]
Wings were level.
Glideslope held until flare.
Good pitch control after touchdown.
Good pitch at landing.
Heading aligned with runway.
Throttle(s) idle.
Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
Good steering after landing.

Landing included the following problems:
Poor glideslope on ILS approach - you can do better. [0%]
Poor alignment with runway on ILS approach - line up and stay there. [0%]
Landed without a proper approach OR off runway surface.
Definite room for improvement...


The score suggests that you were not following the ILS. Were you performing a visual approach? Did you intend NAV1 to be tuned to an ILS?


Circuit Score:0.00

Circuit included the following:
Good Upwind heading.
Good Upwind altitude.
Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
Good Crosswind heading.
Good Crosswind altitude.
Late turn onto Downwind leg - turn Downwind on reaching 1000 feet AAL.
Good Downwind heading.
Poor Downwind altitude - maintain 1000 feet AAL.
Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
Good Base heading.
Good Base altitude.
Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
Banking not too steep.
Landing too far from Circuit reference point.
Landing distance from Circuit reference point:1245 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score reset to zero due to poor Landing Score (under 50 points).


FSFlyingSchool holds that if the landing is very poor the circuit will not be awarded points.







Flight Score:94.55

Flight commended in the following areas:
Smooth turns.
Nice banking.
Comfortable G forces.
Smooth pitch control.
Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
Gentle taxi turns.
Good take off steering.
Safe taxi speed.
Smooth braking during taxi.
Smooth climb during takeoff.
Wings level near ground.
Well coordinated turns.
No stalls.
No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
Smooth comfortable descent rate.
Pitch not too high.
Pitch not too low.
Approach speed not too fast.
Low altitude speeds not too fast.
Good clearance of obstacles.

Flight included the following problems:
Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
Definite room for improvement...


Looks like the 'flight' evaluation of that circuit went very well! Well done!


Many thanks for listening,
John.







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Post #13510
Posted Saturday, September 01, 2018 5:55:21 AM


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Hi John:

>> Circuit Score reset to zero due to poor Landing Score (under 50 points), is confusing. as have had good 80-90% landing scores and still getting 0.00 circuit score.

We can see that when the landing score is very low - the circuit score is zero - as explained in the log itself.

There was one case where you did get a circuit with a score of zero and a high landing score, but that was the one with the puzzling timings (which don't add up) which we have not resolved.

The circuit reference point it certainly set when you start circuit mode with

Ctrl Shift Space

but of course you must take care not to do this at any other time, or you will be setting it to some other place. I am not saying that you are doing this, but if a pilot DID by mistake, then it certainly would be a problem.

I'd like to gather more data:

- What is the full name and version of X-Plane on the PC?

- What is the full name and published version of the aircraft?

- Is the airport add-on scenery?

- Please try the same at a different airport, making sure to get a good landing (so that a poor landing won't zero the circuit score) and paste the log into a reply to this post.


Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer


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