First post here, after buying FSFS 2010 and the cessna pack, using FSX.

I was wondering about the logic behind forcing you to get a good flying and landing score BEFORE you do circuits, which is where you can practice landings so you can get a good landing score, so that you can then enter ciurcuit mode so that ........ etc etc

It seems really backwards to enforce high scores first for something that you use to train yourself.

Is it possible to simply add a switch to allow you to enter circuit mode with NO scores, so you can learn the correct techniques, which is the basic reason I purchased FSFS - must admit to being disappointed I cant fly circuits (yet) using FSFS.

Also, there is no notification that I cant fly circuits (havent posted any scores yet, which may be the issue), but everything else seems to work fine.

Cheers

Gerry

Extensive beta testing proved that the degree of detail in which the FSFS instructor watches your circuit flying means that unless you have the basics of FSFS firmly in hand first, flying circuits will simply lead to a lot of frustration.

We suggest that you try a few simple flights first in order to get the hang of how FSFS works and once you have completed a few short flights with reasonable landings, you will be ready to enter the demanding world of flying circuits in which your instructor will be watching you very closely and expect altitudes and headings to be very much under control.

Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer


FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards

Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.

Hi S/L

I do have some sympathy with Gerry on this circuit issue which has been raised by a number of users previously.

I know that when training for ones ppl on microlights in the UK (and I suspect that GA PPL training is the same) after initial familiarisation with cockpit layout, instruments & handling one is soon spending many hours in the circuit mastering landings. The phrase "circuit & bumps" comes to mind.

At present in fsfs, without the required scores permitting circuits, a new comer would have to c/s/z to enter take off mode,  take off,  then c/s/z to go to cruise mode somewhere in the downwind sector, then c/s/z in order to re-enter landing mode before turning base leg etc etc etc  Quite messy for a new student. Is it not possible to replicate this by providing an "new student circuit" with a tame assessor for new comers and then once skill levels increase progress on to the "advanced student circuits" with a stricter assessor.

I am aware that you & Ole hold the same view on this (judging from previuos posts) but perhaps it is time to revisit this aspect of fsfs, with a fresh mind, to rethink this circuit issue and see if fsfs can be even further improved from its present high standard.

I hope you see these comments as being positive suggestions and in no way critical of what I believe is a great training aid for sim flyers.

Biggles 

This subject is a bit of a tangle...

When flying a circuit with FSFS, the pilot still needs to indicate the flight mode. This is not something which goes away because the pilot has chosen to fly a circuit. Therefore, even if a more forgiving circuit mode instructor were created, the pilot would still have to indicate the flight mode - this is a core concept of FSFS.

If a student is using a new 'easy' circuit mode instructor without a requirement to have decent landing and flight scores first, what does that actually mean? It means the pilot can neither fly safely, nor land safely   and yet here he/she is trying to fly, and master FSFS flight modes, and master the meaning of downwind, base, final, altitudes, headings, etc.

I understand that this is a good way to practice flight in the real world, but in the world of FSFS I can't help thinking that the easiest thing for the student to do is to just get that darned bird into the air and as it were, "Fly around a bit..." without anyone complaining that you are not following the correct ground track  and altitude  and (even harder) the specific pattern  at an airfield.

No - that is not what happens in the real world, but we often have to make accomodations in the simulated world, such as allowing people without any experience to fly a 747  and having an instructor who can tell the above ground level of any aircraft even in thick cloud and total darkness despite it not having a radar altimeter.

In a lot of cases during beta testing we found that people who got totally frustrated by circuits had not scored a decent flight or landing score. A key point is that this was very often due to the fact that they did not fully understand how FSFS worked in the first place, and trying to fly FSFS circuits on top of that just made matters worse.

They were getting zero for landings every time for example and this is almost always because the user does not understand (and has not read about) how FSFS expects an approach to landing to be set up, with the key difference between and ILS and a visual approach.

Having said all this... (now it comes...   we certainly can see the potential of having varying levels of precision demanded by instructors, or just plain setting different 'difficulty levels' in FSFS in general.

Perhaps if there were a way to implement an 'easy' circuit mode, the circuit scores would therefore be correspondingly lower, but easier to achieve. But again this would have to be combined with some manner of making sure that the pilot was not swamped with complexity  while doing initial training.

I hope I have managed to explain some of the issues here and hope that what I have written encourages more input from Biggles, 'HF' and others. Thanks folks and please keep it comin'!

Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer


FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards

Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.

I can see now that it is NOT trivial to implement a "simple" circuit system, and do get  what SL is saying.

I suppose its just my preference to replicate real-world, and currently, I'm doing FS circuits till I go dizzy, and i think that the extra feedback from an instructor would help to nail those turns on base and final to help setup the landing.

Still, all in all, I think its a good product, and have only scratched the surface of what it can do.....

OFF TOPIC WARNING- (All this FS stuff has been piqued cause my 19YO daugther is currently working towards her commercial licence, and had just completed her first solo flight - JEALOUS?? who, me?? - Shes just struggling at the moment trying to get consistent flares on landing)

Cheers

Gerry

I recommend that (unlike the real world... ) you take off in a Cessna 172 and fly a very simple loop back to the runway you took off from, but use the ILS there to guide you in. (Pick any runway in the world with ILS). Smitty and his friends will become very chatty with an ILS signal.

Just make sure your run into a long (not short) final starts a good 5 minutes before the runway threshold and say 2000 feet above ground. That will give you time to get lined up and onto a good glideslope.

With a relatively gentle landing, this should get you the scores needed to start flying circuits under the hawk-like eyes of the team.

Also remember that there is nothing in FSFS which stops you from starting in the air. No - you won't get a flight score, but it is a great way to practice landings, over and over and over - and that really IS what is done in the real world.

Get set up as described above for your final approach and save the flight there in FS so you can use it over and over again. You will soon be doing very nice landings...

And - good luck to your daughter! Sounds like she's doin' great!

Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer


FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards

Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.

Circuits are very demanding in FSFS, but it sure feels great when you get it just right.

Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer


FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004


Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards

Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!

If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.