A few issues



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Posted Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:55:21 PM
FSFlyingSchool Pilot

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First i would like to say very good job on your product. I did come across a couple issues in my opinion. The 1st is the pitch at rotate. I admit that most aircraft are limited below 8 degrees on rotate. But there are planes like the dc-10 and the md-11 that will break ground at 10 degrees body angle during rotation towards 17 to 20 degrees to capture v2+10. We like to say that you force micky d jets to fly because of the angle of attack required for the low lift air foil. Under rotation in aircraft like these would effect the sid/obstacle climb capability due to the extended lift off point. Not a big issue but it would be nice if you could manually set the limit. The 2nd issue is that as soon as the gear breaks ground, the instructor screams about gear retraction. Now in my operations(real life dc10) we look for 3 positives rates of climb before retracting the gear. Baro, VVI, and radar altimeter. By habit i find my self saying( 1, 2, 3 positive rates gear up). So i think it would be better if this limit was set by a agl trigger. Maybe 100 to 300ft agl as the gear should be up by then. As a heavy instructor/check airman, i would all ways give a guy a chance by giving him a little time to notice his error. If he forgets the gear, i usually put my hand on the handle and maybe state(wow whats that wooshing noise). That usually gives them a visual and verbal reminder. If he still fails, ill berate him/her lol. The next would be the localizer and glide slope calls. This maybe difficult but it would be nice if the trigger was caused after intercept and by distance. If you deviate from the loc/slope he berates you. If you havent reached the loc/slope by a certain distance he berates you. The other day he complained so much about the glide slope that i wanted to pop him one lol. I was on a 15 mile final and he berated me until i intercepted the slope. Last would be landing flap settings. Some aircraft may have different landing flaps. DC-10/MD-11 have 35 and 50. The MD-80 has 28 and 40. So during a normal flaps landing of 35 in the MD-11, the instructor hassled me until i chose a 50 flap landing. The option to set the landing flaps would be nice. Dont think im trying to bash your program. Im just giving you some ideas for future features. 1 thing i can say is that pilots have BIG egos. When you are all over them and dont give them a chance to breath or catch a mistake, they get testy lol. Some times based on attitude, i would let a guy really get in deep and then bring to his attention so it would set in. They usually dont make that mistake again lol.
Post #3194
Posted Friday, January 09, 2009 7:12:22 AM


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Richkc10:

Thanks for all the feedback - much appreciated!

>> First i would like to say very good job on your product.

Many thanks for the kind words. Can we quote you in our materials?

>> I did come across a couple issues in my opinion. The 1st is the pitch at rotate. I admit that most aircraft are limited below 8 degrees on rotate. But there are planes like the dc-10 and the md-11 that will break ground at 10 degrees body angle during rotation towards 17 to 20 degrees to capture v2+10. We like to say that you force micky d jets to fly because of the angle of attack required for the low lift air foil. Under rotation in aircraft like these would effect the sid/obstacle climb capability due to the extended lift off point. Not a big issue but it would be nice if you could manually set the limit. The 2nd issue is that as soon as the gear breaks ground, the instructor screams about gear retraction. Now in my operations(real life dc10) we look for 3 positives rates of climb before retracting the gear. Baro, VVI, and radar altimeter. By habit i find my self saying( 1, 2, 3 positive rates gear up). So i think it would be better if this limit was set by a agl trigger. Maybe 100 to 300ft agl as the gear should be up by then. As a heavy instructor/check airman, i would all ways give a guy a chance by giving him a little time to notice his error. If he forgets the gear, i usually put my hand on the handle and maybe state(wow whats that wooshing noise). That usually gives them a visual and verbal reminder. If he still fails, ill berate him/her lol.

I see what you mean exactly. FSFS does have logic which waits for the aircraft to achieve 200 AGL (amoungst other things) before asking for "gear up", but we could perhaps make that a little higher in order to give the pilot just a little more time.

>> The next would be the localizer and glide slope calls. This maybe difficult but it would be nice if the trigger was caused after intercept and by distance. If you deviate from the loc/slope he berates you. If you havent reached the loc/slope by a certain distance he berates you. The other day he complained so much about the glide slope that i wanted to pop him one lol.

I know how you feel! That darned 'Smitty'!

>> I was on a 15 mile final and he berated me until i intercepted the slope.

Yes - these are areas we are certainly going to adjust. We're also thinking along the lines of incorporating the time left before the aircraft will be landing, meaning that the instructor will expect a 747 to be all lined up rather further out (in miles) than a c172.

>> Last would be landing flap settings. Some aircraft may have different landing flaps. DC-10/MD-11 have 35 and 50. The MD-80 has 28 and 40. So during a normal flaps landing of 35 in the MD-11, the instructor hassled me until i chose a 50 flap landing. The option to set the landing flaps would be nice.

I'm not sure what you're describing here. The instructor will certainly yell if you are too fast for the current flaps setting, but we have not yet got them asking for more flaps if you already have some flaps (any flaps) set. We are indeed working on adding this, but have not got it just yet.
Can you help me understand what you experienced...?

>> Dont think im trying to bash your program. Im just giving you some ideas for future features.

Bashing? Perish the thought! We love feedback and very much appreciate your time and expertise.

>> 1 thing i can say is that pilots have BIG egos.

Ha! Pilots? Big egos? Surely not...  

>> When you are all over them and dont give them a chance to breath or catch a mistake, they get testy lol. Some times based on attitude, i would let a guy really get in deep and then bring to his attention so it would set in. They usually dont make that mistake again lol.

Interesting technique!

We are running a poll right now on this forum which asks folks what they'd like to see added or changed and this includes ideas such as "Make it easier" etc.

As you will imagine, we walk a fine line between:

"What a silly program - it didn't even complain when I did 'X' for 10 seconds..."

and

"What an annoying program - it complained when I did 'X', but I only did it for 10 seconds..."



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