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FSFlyingSchool Pilot
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, September 08, 2014 4:32:12 PM
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Hey all,
I'm hoping for some help with flying circuits in FSX. I finally got it to register my landing so my landing score is above 50%, hoping that it would register the circuit score, but no luck. Any suggestions?
piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Friday, September 05, 2014 at 21:31
Aircraft: Cessna ID: G-BAFM Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: TO KEYW Key West:Key West Intl NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 06 Mins 21 Secs
Landing Score:66.00
Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Good alignment with runway on visual approach. [90%]
* Gentle touchdown. [240 FPM]
* Good landing speed - not too fast. [45 KIAS]
* Wings were level.
* Distance from runway threshold (visual approach): [557 feet]
* Landed on runway surface.
* Glideslope held until flare.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing. [9 degrees]
* With flaps - good job. [38 degrees]
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
* Poor glideslope on visual approach - you can do better. [40%]
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score:0.00
Circuit included the following:
* Good Upwind heading.
* Good Upwind altitude.
* Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
* Good Crosswind heading.
* Good Crosswind altitude.
* Good turn onto Downwind leg.
* Good Downwind heading.
* Poor Downwind altitude - maintain 1000 feet AAL.
* Good turn onto Base.
* Good Base heading.
* Good Base altitude.
* Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
* Banking not too steep.
* Landing too far from Circuit reference point.
* Landing distance from Circuit reference point:902 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:89.38
Flight commended in the following areas:
* Smooth turns.
* Nice banking.
* Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
* Comfortable G forces.
* Smooth pitch control.
* Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
* Gentle taxi turns.
* Good take off steering.
* Safe taxi speed.
* Smooth braking during taxi.
* Smooth climb during takeoff.
* Wings level near ground.
* Well coordinated turns.
* No stalls.
* No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
* Smooth comfortable descent rate.
* Pitch not too high.
* Pitch not too low.
* Approach speed not too fast.
* Low altitude speeds not too fast.
* Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
* Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
* Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool Developer
Group: Administrators
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 8:59:32 AM
Posts: 5,065,
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Hi LP:
I have to say that your circuit looks right on the money in most aspects  - there is one item that has reduced the score to zero. 
>> * Landing too far from Circuit reference point.
>> * Landing distance from Circuit reference point:902 feet.
As you know the instructor is pretty demanding  on circuits as the ideal circuit can be defined very precisely and so, as the manual says:
"Land on the runway within 300 feet of your Circuit Reference Point."
If this does not happen, the score is zero.
For this reason it's a good idea to make sure that you will be able to see your reference point from the air - you need to know exactly where it is by sight. You might start 'on the numbers' for example.
Using this visual aid, make sure you plant that plane down there when you land. This is of course a skill all by itself as it is very easy to come in too high or (commonly) too fast.
If you are on the glideslope you won't be too high, but if you are too fast, the landing will not be a good one as you'd need to 'fly the plane onto the runway', instead of flaring and letting her settle down.
I hope that helps!
Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
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FSFlyingSchool Pilot
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, September 08, 2014 4:32:12 PM
Posts: 4,
Visits: 6
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Thanks for the response SL. I've been spending some time yesterday and today to try to get it right based on your suggestion.
I managed to get a circuit score to register once. But every other one I keep getting zero. It says I turn late onto base and that my final is too long, but I have to in order to have enough time on final to get down right on the numbers without decending too quickly. It keeps complaining about my glidescope, but I'm held at 500ft/min and the PAPI lights are good until very late final when I have to decend low in order to hit the runway numbers.
Any idea what's up this time? I'd imagine I can move forward on the runway past the numbers before starting the circuit, which might fix the problem, but the plane starts on the numbers automatically so I should be able to hit it.
Argggh... demanding is an understatement.
piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Sunday, September 07, 2014 at 14:11
Aircraft: Cessna ID: G-BAFM Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: TO KEYW Key West:Key West Intl NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 06 Mins 25 Secs
Landing Score:72.59
Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Good alignment with runway on visual approach. [80%]
* Gentle touchdown. [174 FPM]
* Good landing speed - not too fast. [45 KIAS]
* Wings were level.
* Distance from runway threshold (visual approach): [199 feet]
* Landed on runway surface.
* Glideslope held until flare.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing. [5 degrees]
* With flaps - good job. [38 degrees]
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
* Poor glideslope on visual approach - you can do better. [40%]
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score:0.00
Circuit included the following:
* Good Upwind heading.
* Good Upwind altitude.
* Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
* Good Crosswind heading.
* Good Crosswind altitude.
* Good turn onto Downwind leg.
* Good Downwind heading.
* Good Downwind altitude.
* Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
* Good Base heading.
* Good Base altitude.
* Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
* Banking not too steep.
* Final circuit leg too long [365] secs.
* Landing distance from Circuit reference point:101 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:85.38
Flight commended in the following areas:
* Smooth turns.
* Nice banking.
* Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
* Comfortable G forces.
* Smooth pitch control.
* Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
* Gentle taxi turns.
* Good take off steering.
* Smooth braking during taxi.
* Smooth climb during takeoff.
* Wings level near ground.
* Well coordinated turns.
* No stalls.
* No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
* Smooth comfortable descent rate.
* Pitch not too high.
* Pitch not too low.
* Flaps down on time.
* Approach speed not too fast.
* Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
* Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
* Poor attention to taxi speed - dangerous to yourself and others.
* Excessive speed at low altitude - several complaints have been filed.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool Pilot
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, September 08, 2014 4:32:12 PM
Posts: 4,
Visits: 6
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One thing that I think is causing me problems is the fact that I have to be >550ft when finishing my turn onto final in order for FSFS to register the runway... That always causes me to be too high according to the glidescope which is causing me to turn onto base later to give me more time. I'm typically used to finishing that turn around 400ft and descending 300-400fpm rather than 500fpm.
Is there a way to have the runway register apart from being lined up above 500ft?
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FSFlyingSchool Developer
Group: Administrators
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 8:59:32 AM
Posts: 5,065,
Visits: 9,200
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Hi LP:
Well...
... you could try filing a flight plan with FSFS (with FSX too if you like but this is not important) to the airport and runway you are using. If you have a flight plan, that takes precedence over the "runway in front of you when you descend through 500 AAL in landing mode" as it were. Mr Smith et al know where you are going regardless of where your nose is pointing when you are descending through 500 AAL.
You could also try starting off further down the runway as you mentioned - inspired idea!
There is something odd about the evaluation of the circuit though - it says your final leg was equal to the duration of the entire flight! Rest assured that circuit mode was introduced in the first version of FSFS in 2006 and has not changed so it works just fine, but it has to be set up just right.
Is the NAV1 OBS set to the runway heading when starting the circuit per the manual?
Just for reference - can you also try it at a location that has ILS and with NAV1 tuned to the runway ILS? That will give us some more data to look at. 
Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004
Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards
Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!
If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.
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FSFlyingSchool Pilot
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Monday, September 08, 2014 4:32:12 PM
Posts: 4,
Visits: 6
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Loading a flight plan did the trick! Thanks for your help SL!
piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Paint1 ended Monday, September 08, 2014 at 12:29
Aircraft: Cessna ID: G-BAFM Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: KEYW TO KEYW : NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 05 Mins 20 Secs
Landing Score:52.89
Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Good glideslope on visual approach. [50%]
* Gentle touchdown. [371 FPM]
* Good landing speed - not too fast. [42 KIAS]
* Wings were level.
* Distance from runway threshold (visual approach): [187 feet]
* Landed on runway surface.
* Glideslope held until flare.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing. [6 degrees]
* With flaps - good job. [38 degrees]
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
* Poor alignment with runway on visual approach - line up and stay there. [10%]
Definite room for improvement...
Circuit Score:85.90
Circuit included the following:
* Good Upwind heading.
* Good Upwind altitude.
* Good turn onto Crosswind leg.
* Good Crosswind heading.
* Good Crosswind altitude.
* Good turn onto Downwind leg.
* Good Downwind heading.
* Good Downwind altitude.
* Late turn onto Base - turn when circuit reference point is 45 degrees behind you.
* Good Base heading.
* Good Base altitude.
* Late on Final - get onto final sooner next time.
* Banking not too steep.
* Landing distance from Circuit reference point:91 feet.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:92.31
Flight commended in the following areas:
* Smooth turns.
* Nice banking.
* Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
* Comfortable G forces.
* Smooth pitch control.
* Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
* Gentle taxi turns.
* Good take off steering.
* Rotation was not late.
* Safe taxi speed.
* Smooth braking during taxi.
* Smooth climb during takeoff.
* Wings level near ground.
* Well coordinated turns.
* No stalls.
* No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
* Smooth comfortable descent rate.
* Pitch not too high.
* Pitch not too low.
* Approach speed not too fast.
* Low altitude speeds not too fast.
* Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
* Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool Developer
Group: Administrators
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 8:59:32 AM
Posts: 5,065,
Visits: 9,200
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Hi LP:
Excellent result!
>> Argggh... demanding is an understatement. Smile
This is very true.
Perhaps I could use this opportunity to stimulate some chatter here at the forum amongst FSFS pilots.
We are looking at adding formal lessons to FSFS - people have responded enthusiastically to our survey questions about this.
Now of course, the stated goal of FSFS has always been to be as flexible as possible - any plane - anywhere. But with lessons, the pilot's options would certainly be limited.
We cannot make a generic set of lessons that would work in any plane - any such treatment would be extremely shallow.
So... we'd make lessons for, at first at least, a specific plane, and that would, without question, be the FSX c172 as it has to be a plane built into FSX, so that everyone has it, and also a good beginner's plane (no gear, prop levers, speedbrake, etc).
We do hope however, that we would be able to create lessons that would not have a fixed location.
Most folks are OK with the idea of a specific plane, but want to be able to fly around their neighbourhood, instead of around KSEA as with the Rod Machado lessons.
Anyway... to get back to your point...
'Circuit Mode' in FSFS is the closest we come to a lesson at present, and a lot of folks love it, and a lot of folks don't. It is pretty demanding, with fine (but achievable) tolerances, and they are very similar to the tolerances set in the Rod Machado lessons.
So my question to forum members is this: would you be excited about lessons with tolerances similar to the experience of 'Circuit mode' in the existing FSFS?
Just to be clear - when I speak of tolerances I am talking about flying say within 50' of the assigned altitude, within 5 KIAS of the assigned airspeed, within 3 degrees of the assigned heading etc. (These are just example numbers to make the point.)
Hmmm... I'll post this as a new topic as well to try to get it started as a general discussion...
Jeff Preston ('Squadron Leader') - FSFlyingSchool Publisher & Lead Developer
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FSFlyingSchool 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11
FS Instant Approach 2023 for X-Plane 12 & 11 (Windows)
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2020 Prepar3D v 5
FSFlyingSchool PRO 2019 FSX, FSX-SE, FS2004
FSFlyingSchool USA for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Approach 2019 for X-Plane 11 (Mac)
FS Instant Approach for Microsoft Flight Simulator
FS Instant Help for FSX, FS2004
Winner of 5 consecutive PC Pilot Magazine 'Classic Product' Awards
Fly like the Pros with X-Plane, Flight Simulator and Prepar3D!
If you wish to unsubscribe simply reply to email with the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the SUBJECT line.
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