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FSFlyingSchool Captain
 
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| Hi Squad Leader, I'll like your crit on the following circuit if you don't mind? I wasn't in CIRCUIT mode - just an ordinary 10 minute circuit, VFR flight at Boundary Bay B.C 1. Take-off - I started off at the end of rwy 30 (302 deg) with my OBS set to the rwy orientation of 302 deg, started FSFS and hit Ctrl-Shft-Z to go straight into take-off mode I'm used to Mr Smith's comments, so I raised the nose at 55 and rotated just before he said "OK, ready to rotate - rotate" so am quite sure I rotated in time. 2. At 500' I hit Ctrl-Shft-Z to indicate I was going into cruising mode, and turned into a a rate 1 climbing left crosswind turn, ascending to 1000' at 100 KIAS. No problems. 3. When sufficiently far crosswind, I hit Ctrl-Shft-Z to indicate I was starting to descend, and immediately Mr Smith commented "If you're going to descend, you'd better lower flaps". But I wasn't ready for that. I reduced speed to 80, then lowered flaps 1 and started to descend to about 500'AGL. 4. At 45 deg to rwy touch-down point I turned onto base and lowered flaps to 2, and reduced to landing speed, about 65 KIS. 5. I turned into final,dropped another degree of flaps on short-final, lined up perfectly and made a perfect touch-down. I'm not sure why my landing score was so low - not even the minimum acceptable 70 to be able to do circuits. Looks like the problem lay in glideslope and flap interpretation. Can you help me analyze how to improve? Many thanks Stan HERE'S THE LOG: LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Kangan Batman TAFE by RealAir Simulations ended Tuesday, May 11, 2010 at 20:16 Aircraft: Cessna ID: VH-KBT Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 10 Mins 26 Secs Landing Score:59.50 Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Gentle touchdown.
* Good landing speed - not too fast.
* Wings were level.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing.
* With flaps - good job.
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
Landing included the following problems:
* No glideslope information was available on visual approach.
* No runway alignment information was available on visual approach.
* No glideslope - could not compare flare to glideslope.
Definite room for improvement...
Flight Score:92.62
Flight commended in the following areas:
* Smooth turns.
* Nice banking.
* Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
* Comfortable G forces.
* Smooth pitch control.
* Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
* Gentle taxi turns.
* Good take off steering.
* Appropriate position of flaps during taxi.
* Safe taxi speed.
* Smooth braking during taxi.
* Smooth climb during takeoff.
* Wings level near ground.
* Well coordinated turns.
* No stalls.
* No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
* Smooth comfortable descent rate.
* Pitch not too high.
* Pitch not too low.
* Approach speed not too fast.
* Low altitude speeds not too fast.
* Good clearance of obstacles.
Flight included the following problems:
* Late rotation - when Vr is reached - take off.
* Flaps not down on time - plan your landing next time.
Definite room for improvement...
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FSFlyingSchool PPL
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3. When sufficiently far crosswind, I hit Ctrl-Shft-Z to indicate I was starting to descend, and immediately Mr Smith commented "If you're going to descend, you'd better lower flaps". But I wasn't ready for that. I reduced speed to 80, then lowered flaps 1 and started to descend to about 500'AGL.
I've also hit that problem.
I also get immediate warnings about glideslope if I don't hit Ctrl-Shft-Z *after* aligning myself in advance. Now, I thought the proper procedure for an ILS approach is to intercept the GS from below ... so you're always going to get that warning if you initiate landing mode at the "proper" time .
It seems to me that we need an APPROACH mode and then a LANDING mode.
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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Last Login: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:16:00 AM
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| Adam, I like your idea about an approach mode. It doesn't have to be an approach mode as such, but maybe a SUSPEND or PAUSE mode in which FSFS will not react until you are set up to resume whatever you're doing. I never thought of that before, but there may be some valid reason for not incorporating it. Lets see what Squadron Leader has to say. Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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| OK, here's some more observations. Remember I'm just doing a take-off, circuit and landing, so there's no flight plan. The best landing score I could get was in the 60's with the OBS set to the runway heading because I got a zero for glideslope-there being no plan filed. So what I did was to create a "dummy" flight from the airport location to the landing runway. What now happened was that, once I went into landing mode on downwind, Mr Smith immediately reminded me that I had no glide slope - so I ascended until he was quiet. Continuing to final I found that I was way too high but the moment I descended he started complaining again. I overshot the TDZ as a result and landed, and my landing score was 0. I repeated this a few times with the same result, so I then ignored his glideslope comments and went in for a perfect landing a few times. I still scored zero on landing because of the glideslope problem. So it looks like we do have some problem here. If I don't file a plan, but just enter the runway heading, I at least get a score. If I file a plan, I always get a zero because Mr Smith doesn't let me descend. In both instances I'm penalized because of the glideslope problem. Squad Leader - this one's over to you for comment! Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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Last Login: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:16:00 AM
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| Sorry for the blow by blow account but I'm making progress, and seem to have got it except that I now got zero for a perfect landing with no criticism! Watch this. I realized that the reason for the glideslope problem was that I HADN'T DEFINED MY AIRSTRIP in the Non-ILS database. Silly me. Anyhow I got this right with the Ctrl-Shift-M thing, and the details appeared in the database. I did my usual circuit, and this is the report. Why a zero for landing with a comment "A splendiid landing"? S/L you'll have to figure that one out for me and then I'll leave you in peace (for the moment)!! Stan LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Kangan Batman TAFE by RealAir Simulations ended Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 19:22 Aircraft: Cessna ID: VH-KBT Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: CZBB TO CZBB NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 10 Mins 01 Secs Landing Score:0.00 Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Good glideslope on visual approach.
* Good alignment with runway on visual approach.
* Gentle touchdown.
* Good landing speed - not too fast.
* Wings were level.
* Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 565 feet
* Glideslope held until flare.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing.
* With flaps - good job.
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
A splendid landing!
Flight Score:100.60
Flight commended in the following areas:
* Smooth turns.
* Nice banking.
* Correct matching of flaps to speeds.
* Comfortable G forces.
* Smooth pitch control.
* Flown within aircraft's maximum speed limit.
* Gentle taxi turns.
* Good take off steering.
* Rotation was not late.
* Appropriate position of flaps during taxi.
* Safe taxi speed.
* Smooth braking during taxi.
* Smooth climb during takeoff.
* Wings level near ground.
* Well coordinated turns.
* No stalls.
* No flying dangerously close to stall speed.
* Smooth comfortable descent rate.
* Pitch not too high.
* Pitch not too low.
* Flaps down on time.
* Approach speed not too fast.
* Low altitude speeds not too fast.
* Good clearance of obstacles.
A smooth flight!
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FSFlyingSchool Training Captain
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stanshear (5/12/2010)
Sorry for the blow by blow account but I'm making progress, and seem to have got it except that I now got zero for a perfect landing with no criticism! Watch this. I realized that the reason for the glideslope problem was that I HADN'T DEFINED MY AIRSTRIP in the Non-ILS database. Silly me. Anyhow I got this right with the Ctrl-Shift-M thing, and the details appeared in the database. I did my usual circuit, and this is the report. Why a zero for landing with a comment "A splendiid landing"? S/L you'll have to figure that one out for me and then I'll leave you in peace (for the moment)!!
Stan
LightSpeed piloting Cessna Skyhawk 172SP Kangan Batman TAFE by RealAir Simulations ended Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 19:22
Aircraft: Cessna ID: VH-KBT Airline: Flight:
Flight plan: CZBB TO CZBB NAV1:
Failure(s): None at landing
Failure Event(s) (Zulu Time): None
Failure Bonus:0% Flight Duration:00 Hours 10 Mins 01 Secs
Landing Score:0.00
Landing was successful in the following areas:
* Good glideslope on visual approach.
* Good alignment with runway on visual approach.
* Gentle touchdown.
* Good landing speed - not too fast.
* Wings were level.
* Distance from touchdown target (visual approach): 565 feet
* Glideslope held until flare.
* Good pitch control after touchdown.
* Good pitch at landing.
* With flaps - good job.
* Heading aligned with runway.
* Throttle(s) idle.
* Good controlled final descent to touchdown.
* Good steering after landing.
A splendid landing!
Stan.
I am happy that you posted this one. I was on the verge of replying to your post yesterday evening late, but didnt. Now I see that you solved the one problem that prevented me from posting a reply. You yourself provide the answer to your question.
As I suspected yesterday. The reason you keep getting zero landingscores when you have made a flightplan and are landing OK is simple. You are forgetting one small, but very important thing:
THE LANDING SPOT! (or touchdown target as it is called in the log book)
If you dont make a runway file to your landing, the EDGE of the runway is the target spot for you to land on. (If you make a runway file, its the spot YOU chose that is your aiming spot) IF you can hit the landing spot, or land extremely close to it (about 20 feet), you will actually get bonus points, in addition to the points you have accumulated in the landing process.
BUT.
As soon as you land further feet away from the spot, the points you have accumulated, starts to vanish at a frightening rate. The further away from the spot, the more points are subtracted. I have found that at about 400-450 feet away from the spot, your landing score will start to show up as Zero! - and mind you, 450 feet is NOT much in a Boeing 747! 
I can see in your logbook entry, that you landed 565 feet off the landing spot, and THIS is the reason why you got a zero for landing.
Glideslope/localizer problems will subtract points from a perfect score as well, but it will never rob you of all points. The landing spot will - and quickly! 
I hope you can use this. Look back in your log book and see the zeros, and how far you landed from the spot. If there is no distance in the logbook, its probably because you didnt file a flightplan. You got to do that for non-ils landings. ILS landings can be performed without filing a flightplan.
Regards
Ole Andreasen, Denmark
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FSFlyingSchool Developer
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| Thanks Ole for such a detailed reply. Stan - Ole covers it all - just one thing I wanted to add - we are looking at that "Splendid landing" phrase - clearly FSFS should not put that in your log book if there are any problems. The problem is the distance from the landing spot.  Keep in mind that the landing spot is optional - you do not need to create one. As I think you and I discussed earlier, there are fewer steps in making an ILS approach and landing in FSFS than a visual approach and it does not even require a flight plan - so it is actually easier to set up than visual, in FSFS.  Bottom line - if, despite that, you want to do a visual approach, you must have a flight plan, you must not have an ILS signal, and you must aim for either the default, or your customized, landing spot, and land very close to it, as Ole explained. By the way - excellent landing! Now that you know the details - Mr Smith will be expecting some pretty spiffy scores!
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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| Aha guys - the landing spot. That makes sense. So even if you have a perfect landing but are not close to the landing spot, FSFS will not tell you this but will deduct from your score. Just one point that I'm a little unclear - once I've created a flight plan and it appears in the NonILS folder, do I simply load this every time (as I do), or must I define the landing spot each time by hitting Ctrl-Shift-M? The landing spot doesn't seem to be a part of the NonILS file information and I'm not clear how this is defined in FSFS. BTW, FSFS is going to be absolutely perfect for teaching kids as in my earlier postings. Stan
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FSFlyingSchool Captain
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Last Login: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:16:00 AM
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| Well, I just get carried away in my enthusiasm for the product. As usual, I've answered my own question. I see that the NonILS file DOES include the exact point on the runway that you define for landing - it simply the coordinates where you position the plane and then press Ctl-Shift-M to define the parameters. So I'm now in business. I never bothered about this before in the months that I've used FSFS but now its become a lot more meaningful. I'll put a posting up when I've succeeded in getting this all right. All the best to our fabulous design team. Stan
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